2007 - 05 - 14 12:19 # 977
after watching the documentary by France 24
i was thinking of hidden armenians around me, here in germany. there're many arm families who together with turks & kurds migrated from turkey somewhere after WW2. before coming to germany (or anywhere else in europe), they were already partially assimilated w/ turks, were hiding their identities, did not speak their native lang at home etc..
through armenian communities in germany i met many "turkish-armenians". although those are the families, who came back to their armenian identities, they know they're armenians, they even regularly come to arm community meetings etc... older members know bad german, so between each other they always speak turkish, mother lang spoken at home is also Turkish. Their kids already born here know well german & Turkish. They have mostly Turkish names & surnames. & mentality is Turkish.. my first reaction to them was rejection. "they're no armenians, they r turks!" (yes, i'm young & sometimes being stupid:) for long i couldn't understand how after all the sufferings seen from turks can armenians have turkish as native lang, give their children turkish names.. & that NOT in turkey, when they'd be forced to!! no, in free europe, where nobody discriminates them for being armenians, nobody prohibits them to speak armenian, practice own religion, culture.. it's their OWN CHOICE to stay with their turkish part of identity. i guess, it's just easier for them.. why to make effort & learn armenian? why rename their turkish surnames & go back to their armenian ones? etc etc.
it's easy to judge, but let's think what could we do for them to bring them back to “armenishness” (is there a world like “armyanstvo” in eng?). first thought is to provide armenian language courses. But they already exist in many arm communities, there is the offer, but it’s not demanded much, very few ppl go to these we just need to find incentives for those ppl to start learning Armenian, send their children to Armenian lang courses. You cannot just force them do so.
another idea was to collect such stories, find the ppl, send to them professional documentary film makers, shot films or reportages.. translate them into many languages & spread around the world using any channel: internet, tv... & first of all translate into turkish, cause those lost Armenians, esp in turkey, don't know armenian, english or any other foreign lang, only turkish.
what u think ab it all?
i was thinking of hidden armenians around me, here in germany. there're many arm families who together with turks & kurds migrated from turkey somewhere after WW2. before coming to germany (or anywhere else in europe), they were already partially assimilated w/ turks, were hiding their identities, did not speak their native lang at home etc..
through armenian communities in germany i met many "turkish-armenians". although those are the families, who came back to their armenian identities, they know they're armenians, they even regularly come to arm community meetings etc... older members know bad german, so between each other they always speak turkish, mother lang spoken at home is also Turkish. Their kids already born here know well german & Turkish. They have mostly Turkish names & surnames. & mentality is Turkish.. my first reaction to them was rejection. "they're no armenians, they r turks!" (yes, i'm young & sometimes being stupid:) for long i couldn't understand how after all the sufferings seen from turks can armenians have turkish as native lang, give their children turkish names.. & that NOT in turkey, when they'd be forced to!! no, in free europe, where nobody discriminates them for being armenians, nobody prohibits them to speak armenian, practice own religion, culture.. it's their OWN CHOICE to stay with their turkish part of identity. i guess, it's just easier for them.. why to make effort & learn armenian? why rename their turkish surnames & go back to their armenian ones? etc etc.
it's easy to judge, but let's think what could we do for them to bring them back to “armenishness” (is there a world like “armyanstvo” in eng?). first thought is to provide armenian language courses. But they already exist in many arm communities, there is the offer, but it’s not demanded much, very few ppl go to these we just need to find incentives for those ppl to start learning Armenian, send their children to Armenian lang courses. You cannot just force them do so.
another idea was to collect such stories, find the ppl, send to them professional documentary film makers, shot films or reportages.. translate them into many languages & spread around the world using any channel: internet, tv... & first of all translate into turkish, cause those lost Armenians, esp in turkey, don't know armenian, english or any other foreign lang, only turkish.
what u think ab it all?
2007 - 05 - 14 20:54 # 18985
In my opinion it will be easier to bring back Turkey's hidden Armenians than those who already left the country. In European countries , for instance Germany ,where Turkish community is quiet large returning to the forgotten "armenianess" will be almost impossible.
I saw this video about two weeks ago and posted it in my blog as well, and after thinking about it I feel that all we as armenians need to do is just be acceptive to those who are willing to return to their roots. although thinking about our passion for classifying Armenians as hayastanci, gharabaghci, parskahay , bakveci and so more, I think it will be very hard.
Sorry , I sound very pessimistic.
I saw this video about two weeks ago and posted it in my blog as well, and after thinking about it I feel that all we as armenians need to do is just be acceptive to those who are willing to return to their roots. although thinking about our passion for classifying Armenians as hayastanci, gharabaghci, parskahay , bakveci and so more, I think it will be very hard.
Sorry , I sound very pessimistic.
2007 - 08 - 22 13:41 # 29994
Halaçoğlu: Remarks distorted, study will contribute to peace
Turkish Historical Society (TTK) President Yusuf Halaçoğlu has said recent remarks made by him that "Kurds are actually Turkmen and that the Alevi Kurds are actually Armenians" were misinterpreted. Halaçoğlu, speaking at a press conference on Tuesday in Ankara, claimed that his words were distorted.
Yusuf Halaçoğlu
"My remarks were wrongly conveyed to the public," said Halaçoğlu, who added: "I do not speak without evidence. Some may prefer making noisy arguments, but I do not make statements without conducting studies. Professors bury their heads in the sand." Touching on the fact that such studies are also made by foreign scholars, Halaçoğlu explained that it is perfectly normal for him as head of the TTK to conduct studies on these subjects and disseminate them to the public.
Professor Ali Yaşar Sarıbay, speaking to Today's Zaman, maintained that such remarks were not appropriate for a scholar or a historian. "Even assuming it was a scientific study, what significance does it have? What we need in this land is peace and tranquility. I don't find these remarks meaningful."
Mehmet Menzir Kababaş, a deputy from the Democratic Society Party (DTP), argued that the statement was unscientific. "The prime minister should immediately remove him from office," he said. When asked about whether he is planning to resign from office, Halaçoğlu responded: "I have not received any reaction in this respect. I will not resign. The government has not requested me to do so." Halaçoğlu added that even if he was not the president of the TTK, he would continue to conduct studies on the subject.
He further stressed that his study on Turkish clans -- in which he claims that many Turks became Kurds due to the feudal structure of Ottoman society in the 16th century -- would ultimately contribute to social peace.
Observing that there is currently competition between Kurds and Turks in Turkey, he said: “I am not racist. I regard people as individuals. He who feels himself a member of a particular race is a member of that race.” Halaçoğlu also argued that his study provided important details on the ethnic composition in Turkey and on so-called “converts” (dönme).
Sarıbay said that the claims that Kurds were actually Turks were not new and that such arguments had made no contribution to social peace.
Alevis, too, harshly reacted to Halaçoğlu’s remarks that “Alevi Kurds are actually Armenians.”
Alevi Foundations Federation Chairman Doğan Bermek stressed that some groups in Turkey have been trying to implement social engineering projects. “People are trying to label each other with certain identities,” he said. Noting that it is wrong to confuse religious beliefs with ethnicity, Bermek added: “People may become Armenians or Muslims as they wish, and this cannot be criticized. Halaçoğlu argues that Kurdish-speaking Alevis are Armenians, but they claim to have come from Khorasan. Are they lying?”
Yusuf Halaçoğlu’s study claims that many Armenians identified themselves as “Kurdish Alevis” in an attempt to save themselves from the forced migration of Armenians in 1915.
22.08.2007
Today’s Zaman Ankara
Turkish Historical Society (TTK) President Yusuf Halaçoğlu has said recent remarks made by him that "Kurds are actually Turkmen and that the Alevi Kurds are actually Armenians" were misinterpreted. Halaçoğlu, speaking at a press conference on Tuesday in Ankara, claimed that his words were distorted.
Yusuf Halaçoğlu
"My remarks were wrongly conveyed to the public," said Halaçoğlu, who added: "I do not speak without evidence. Some may prefer making noisy arguments, but I do not make statements without conducting studies. Professors bury their heads in the sand." Touching on the fact that such studies are also made by foreign scholars, Halaçoğlu explained that it is perfectly normal for him as head of the TTK to conduct studies on these subjects and disseminate them to the public.
Professor Ali Yaşar Sarıbay, speaking to Today's Zaman, maintained that such remarks were not appropriate for a scholar or a historian. "Even assuming it was a scientific study, what significance does it have? What we need in this land is peace and tranquility. I don't find these remarks meaningful."
Mehmet Menzir Kababaş, a deputy from the Democratic Society Party (DTP), argued that the statement was unscientific. "The prime minister should immediately remove him from office," he said. When asked about whether he is planning to resign from office, Halaçoğlu responded: "I have not received any reaction in this respect. I will not resign. The government has not requested me to do so." Halaçoğlu added that even if he was not the president of the TTK, he would continue to conduct studies on the subject.
He further stressed that his study on Turkish clans -- in which he claims that many Turks became Kurds due to the feudal structure of Ottoman society in the 16th century -- would ultimately contribute to social peace.
Observing that there is currently competition between Kurds and Turks in Turkey, he said: “I am not racist. I regard people as individuals. He who feels himself a member of a particular race is a member of that race.” Halaçoğlu also argued that his study provided important details on the ethnic composition in Turkey and on so-called “converts” (dönme).
Sarıbay said that the claims that Kurds were actually Turks were not new and that such arguments had made no contribution to social peace.
Alevis, too, harshly reacted to Halaçoğlu’s remarks that “Alevi Kurds are actually Armenians.”
Alevi Foundations Federation Chairman Doğan Bermek stressed that some groups in Turkey have been trying to implement social engineering projects. “People are trying to label each other with certain identities,” he said. Noting that it is wrong to confuse religious beliefs with ethnicity, Bermek added: “People may become Armenians or Muslims as they wish, and this cannot be criticized. Halaçoğlu argues that Kurdish-speaking Alevis are Armenians, but they claim to have come from Khorasan. Are they lying?”
Yusuf Halaçoğlu’s study claims that many Armenians identified themselves as “Kurdish Alevis” in an attempt to save themselves from the forced migration of Armenians in 1915.
22.08.2007
Today’s Zaman Ankara
Код
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=120050
2007 - 08 - 22 14:08 # 30000
Цитата(ART @ 22.8.2007, 11:51)
Мунь ю райт вери интерестинг фингс байц мунк донт адестенд ю)
но надо развивать и нерусскоязычный сектор форума кажись я тут единственная нерусскоязычная, вот и одни монологи веду))на счет статей на английском. я нахожу их из англоязычной прессы, и чаше всего русских вариантов там нету. а я не в состоянии переводить каждую статью. но вы можете использовать онлайн переводчики, в целом смысл можно понять, а дальше можете обсуждать статью на удобном вам языке. другие идеи приветствуются
2007 - 08 - 22 16:05 # 30015
Цитата(Moonlight @ 22.8.2007, 6:08)
Цитата(ART @ 22.8.2007, 11:51)
Мунь ю райт вери интерестинг фингс байц мунк донт адестенд ю)
но надо развивать и нерусскоязычный сектор форума кажись я тут единственная нерусскоязычная, вот и одни монологи веду))U r not alone dear Moonlight
2007 - 08 - 22 17:30 # 30026
Цитата(Opium @ 22.8.2007, 14:05)
U r not alone dear Moonlight
what a wonderful news! welcome to board:)
2007 - 08 - 22 19:31 # 30039
Цитата(Moonlight @ 22.8.2007, 9:30)
Цитата(Opium @ 22.8.2007, 14:05)
U r not alone dear Moonlight
what a wonderful news! welcome to board:)thx
2007 - 08 - 24 22:14 # 30298
Цитата(Opium @ 22.8.2007, 8:05)
Цитата(Moonlight @ 22.8.2007, 6:08)
Цитата(ART @ 22.8.2007, 11:51)
Мунь ю райт вери интерестинг фингс байц мунк донт адестенд ю)
но надо развивать и нерусскоязычный сектор форума кажись я тут единственная нерусскоязычная, вот и одни монологи веду))U r not alone dear Moonlight
+1
not alone at all.
